GENERAL SYNOD DIARY JULY 2012
Paperwork arrived 3 weeks before, 2 books [one on world mission, one on Fresh Expressions] and an inch of other papers, how do people read all this if they
are not retired? Crowded agenda, working until 10pm every night.
Friday 6th July
To York in steady rain with Rev Maureen Hobbs. Arrived at lunch time for a 2pm meeting of House of Laity to discuss the issue of women bishops.
Philip Giddings chaired the meeting, which ranged over all the issues of women in ministry, which I thought odd as we were supposed to be looking at women
bishops....
House of Clergy meeting at same time, separately.
Tim Hind spoke about the proposed amendments added by the bishops and voiced concern that
there would not be a 2/3 majority in favour of the Measure.
Some of the comments from laity:
we need to end discrimination against women
women should work with women and children, not with men
gracious compromise needed
no provision for Anglo-Catholics and Conservative Evangelicals, who provide most of ordinands, London out performs the other dioceses in producing
ordinands
vote to find a better way, adjourn the debate, amendments are risky
Letters of Request may be delayed by priest
wives must submit to their husbands, they should have complimentary roles
men feel threatened, need to think again
senior women clergy not happy with amendments
amendments are spanner in the works, dioceses voted on the draft Measure without the amendments and bishops were asked not to alter the Measure, they have made a
mistake
what about recruiting and retention, 40% clergy due to retire, 60 people have said they will leave if they do not have a protected position for their group [Cons Ev or
traditionalists]
Cons Evangelicals would go to free churches
bishops should withdraw amendment [Clause5 causing most of difficulty]
some people are hostile to women in ministry
we need to hold together
we want to get rid of Cons Evs
male domination is theologically correct
people in the dioceses want us to see the Measure through
amendments do not provide enough protection for Cons Evs and traditionalists
if we cannot sort it out we will be laughing stock, Parliament may intervene
Measure is a dog's dinner
what will the dioceses say if the Measure is voted down
people want protection for Cons Evs and trads to be permanent but nothing is permanent
the working world is losing patience with us, we must find a compromise
By the end of the debate I was feeling quite irritated as the question of women in ministry seemed to have been the main discussion, so I complained afterwards to the Chair of the debate. He said that the Act of Synod was being withdrawn in the Measure so the women in ministry issue could be debated!
What a way to spend my 38th wedding anniversary in what is a partnership!
VOTING FOR MEASURE
123 in favour, 53 against, 0 abstentions
The Amending Canon [needed to take the Measure through]
VOTING 129 in favour, 42 agains, 2 abstentions
These votes were an indication as real voting would be Monday.
Main proceedings started at 5.15pm
Welcomed Archbishop of Turku and Finland, who spoke about the relationship between church and state, religion in the public sphere , religious education, creating
an open space for listening and respecting each other.
REPORT BY THE BUSINESS COMMITTEE [which arranges what we will discuss]
Loyaladdress sent to Buckingham Palace
What happens if we adjourn the women bishops debate? Goes to November sessions
Why are we not discussing scrap metal? New policing/legal initiatives
Why were we meeting as work- groups when time was needed to discuss important business?
What about the Anglican Covenant?
8.30-10pm QUESTIONS 69, some with spoken answers, some with written. All taken in subject groups.
Dioceses and community action. Look at www.churchofengland.org/how2help website.
73 girls in Southampton received contraceptive implants without parental knowledge last
year? What should church do to uphold marriage? It does.
Guidance on multi-faith worship? Group discussing this.
Clergy in civil partnerships? Confidential report at moment.
Number of questions on women bishops and priests, including how did the Bishops vote- by show of hands so not recorded. Are women represented in discussions? Yes Standing Comm has members of both sexes.
Statement submitted to Govt on gay marriage, who wrote it? Offensive to gays. Archbishop's council looked at it and House of Bishops and Lords Spiritual.
States the Church's official position in law. Supplementary questions were asked which indicated the outrage felt by gay people and the lack of pastoral care.
Asked that in future documents should have name of issuing body. Some would wish to disassociate themselves.
Joanna Monckton wished to commend the above document and asked about discussions with Govt. Formal and informal discussions continuing with Home Office. Same sex marriage has support of all 3 main parties. She also asked about clergy being able to refuse to marry same sex couples. Clergy already have discretion over divorcees. No distinction between civil and religious marriage. Religious freedom is in the European Human Rights bill.
Church of England has newly formed Church of Eng Clergy Association, do member know about it? NO. It is a branch of Unite.
Could churchyard be reopened for burials? Concern of local authorities and Ministry of Justice.
Could members be emailed instead of posted to? Discussion in late September, cost £25 for set of labels with addresses. Cost of mailing this Synod £5819.15, £8.58 per
set.
What is present situation regarding Youth and Children's adviser? New full time post.
Children in care, who is responsible for them in schools? Not formally responsible, policy of pastoral care. Fisher Foundation doing good work.
Christian teaching in schools? Often poor quality, diocesan advisers to identify outstanding practice.
115 candidates under 30 recruited as ordinands last year, will be appointing national adviser. Underspend in ordination fund. 115 candidates hoped for next year.
663 candidates attended Bishops' Advisory Panel last year, 134 not recommended. Candidates are well prepared, find it difficult to accept if not chosen.
Does Durham Uni do work-based training. Yes, training Catholics and Methodists already, references were taken from current partners.
Place of Readers? Some diocese training as preachers, short course.
Some dioceses require curates to serve 3 yrs, some 4yrs. Guidelines are needed. Some move to posts too quickly.
OLMs? Diocesan responsibility. Research post into what sustains ministry.
Pioneer ministers? 74 candidates, 27 this year. Lack of posts? Not enough data.
Retirees? Can hold post past 70, already being used as interim ministers.
Can incumbent be appointed on 0.5? Yes, Common Tenure not understood.
Freehold posts? Must retire at 70.
Same sex marriages and Porvoo agreement as Danish Parliament agreed to this? Diversity of views, Porvoo primates meeting Oct 2013. Advice and support to diocesan
twinning.
Scrap metal? Amended Scrap Metal dealers act, starts Oct 2012.
Saturday 7th July
9.30-11.15am
Spent in work groups with a bible study, olives and world mission and reflections of young people.
11.45-1.00pm
WorldShaped Mission
This report outlines the desire to take the C of E from a position of donor to partnership with the third world [or Majority world as the report suggests]. It comments on different types of link- church, diocese, central.
The Bishop of Bristol spoke to introduce the report.
He said that previously the Church had lacked sensitivity to indigenous cultures [how could you not agree with that!] and that that now England is a mission field where we could have mutuality in mission.
The Millenium development goals were referred to.
Rowan Williams made two points:
We need to liaise and collaborate with the black led churches based here.
Mission and aid agencies need to work together more, and DFID. He spoke about his travels to Kenya, Malawi, Zambia and the need for
integration.
Speakers commented:
churches have partnerships
dioceses have links
Rev Mark Ireland spoke about mission and development, mission and evangelism. In Malaysia 64 churches have been planted, often lay led. Gap summer holiday students had been taught how to deliver 2 sermons and sent into the bush with ½ bag rice and a change of clothes. Told to meet again in a month. Sacrificial living situations and humility.
Mission is like jazz, best improvised. Diocesan links, the social gospel, formation of new links, link with Peru.
I commented on the absence of the campaigns for social and trade justice, the previous success of the Make Poverty History campaign and Drop the Debt, the opportunities to join with others and give a faith view. I suggested making England a Fairtrade country and taking more ethical stances about the economy and banking. I was told that was the Ethical Investment Group's role!! Also asked that attention is given to the spread of links, some areas of world are not covered.
the unhealthy competition between mission groups and lack of connections and co-ordination. Involvement needs a focus.
Two amendments were moved, one to include the world church in affirmation of growth, which was carried; the second to include all parishes in world mission was lost as it was felt that some smaller parishes would not want this [perhaps keeping a roof over their heads is enough!]
2.30-6.15
This time was used to tidy up a range of smaller legislative issues, final drafting of the
Clergy Discipline Measure
Comments included:
the length of time it takes for discipline actions, speeding up the process
ensuing mental health problems
alternative accommodation
housing is the real issue
what to do when a political organisation changes its position now that discrimination is not allowed
difficulties in different parts of UK, including when a priest is divorced or seeking divorce
Voting for the draft Measure
For
Against
Abstentions
Bishops
22
0
0
Clergy
86
1
0
Laity
105
1
0
Draft Diocese in Europe Measure
This Measure is to give direct financial support to the diocese in Europe. There are 300 congregations, 160 clergy plus ordinands.
Comments:
we should not fund the diocese in Europe, they are wealthy
they meet once a year
clergy have a lot of travelling to do
people of all types and with all incomes belong
Voting
For
Against
Abstentions
Bishops
22
0
0
Clergy
86
1
0
Laity
105
1
0
Draft
Miscellaneous Provisions Measure and Draft Amending Canon
This Measure and the Canon seems to cover everything from dead bodies in church yards, to glebe land, to youth workers, to who can be a chancellor of a diocese! Anyway various matters were passed!
Church of England Pension scheme
This was amended to include clergy whose churches are being reorganised or who are out of parochial ministry for a while eg chaplains. New Govt regulations came into force in January regarding the liabilities of employers. It was passed.
Legal Officers' fees order
This was about fees paid to registrars. Needless to say they are expensive and for Lichfield it is £62040. Passed.
Church Commissioners' Annual Report
Various questions were asked about investments, the commissioners have bought a lot of forests, did not buy gold. Returns have not been good this year.
Were ethical restraints stopping them making a profit? Not really- tobacco and alcohol were spoken about but ethical issues
only affect 0.6 % of portfolio.
They have sponsored the website www.achurchnearyou.org and were thanked.
More money needed investing in children and young people.
I asked a question about the comment of the actuaries that 5-10% of the non-pension distributions should be arranged so they can stop within 2 years if necessary.
The importance of diocesan funding is crucial to the funding of ministry and mission. Also the dioceses that do not account for their money should be held to
account. The answer was that the actuaries always put in a warning and they like to see prudence which enables them to recommend higher levels of spending than
would otherwise be possible. Agreed that more needs to be done with diocesan spending.
As regards ethical investments, representation on company boards gives the opportunity to criticise executive pay and comment on ethics.
The chief risk currently is a 'European accident' as runs are already being taken on banks.
The report was approved.
As there was more than 20 mins left of the session we moved on to a
Private Member's motion allowing PCCs to own land or buildings without the diocese being involved.
The reasons for this motion were outlined by Christopher Hobbs as
a] at present land and buildings tenancies are in the name of the diocese
b] some parishes are creating trusts to get round this
c] DBFs only meet infrequently, decisions need making swiftly sometimes
d] Mistakes are made by the DBF
e] deed documents are sometimes lost
f] PCCs are publicly accountable as charities
Sympathy was expressed by some who wanted PCCs to have more decentralised power.
Objectors saw difficulties in
PCCs not having expertise
membership of PCCs undergoing change, trusts may
run into trouble
Charity Commission usually waits for complaints before investigating
Discussion was adjourned.
6.30-10pm
Fresh Expressions and Church Growth report
This report justified the Fresh Expression movement in biblical terms and answered critics. It also gave examples.
Our former suffragan, Rt Rev Alan Smith, now Bishop of St Albans, introduced the report, of this joint venture between Anglicans and Methodists, who had already discussed it at their conference.
The Methodist conference had received it warmly with excitement. It has reached churched and un-churched. Methodists have
allocated extra funding. It has been 'timely, necessary and beneficial'.
Comments:
Messy church was being done 25 years ago, speaking to the converted, hope based on well dressing!!
not the only way to reach young people, also need traditional ways [Youth Council rep]
where do sacraments fit?, 20% rise at weekday services, largest in under 12s, mission action planning helpful, lay led, finding creative ways to serve, needs strategy
rethink how to do church, need social engagement
some dioceses have director of Pioneers, every one person attending extra 5 come, cover different cultures and backgrounds, average congregation 35, based on networks
not an end to ministry, a story to share, helpful to regenerate 18-35s
need mixed economy of churches, encouragement needed to move on
lesbian and gays alienated, need FE in parish church
interest in new monasticism
in S Warwicks- church in pubs, cafes, Goths
RW spoke about networking and FE for teenage mothers, drug users etc.
Welcome and food are important, 4 o'clock after school FE
link to mission strategy, MU
different groups have different needs
Preb Pat Hawkins spoke about not confusing young peoples' needs with FE, she has three under 25s on PCC in traditional church. She asked at what point does FE become a church in its own right. The biblical basis should not be limited to 'Acts' only.
Voting 201 in favour, 112 against, 14 abstentions.
Measure carried.
Sunday 8th July
A walk to York Minster from the university following a bishop and companion [although it was not the shortest route- perhaps bishops do meander off course sometimes!].
A most inspiring and understanding sermon from Rowan Williams on frustration. Available here:
http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/articles.php/2558/archbishops-sermon-at-york-minster
Lovely to see the children from junior church presenting him with a card and gift, great photo opp and no camera!
Did compliment him on the sermon and give him a hug!
2.30-6.15pm
Additional Eucharistic Prayers
At last they were approved, only 12 years later!
Annual Report of the Archbishops' Council
This report was presented then questions asked.
Comments were about streamlining faculties, more prominence to working with Methodists, funding for new projects through the Church Community Fund, advice for parishes who had to pay pensions
I asked about ecumenical links and the recognition of the ministry in other denominations and why there is still no action plan on lay ministry as many priests would be
retiring soon. Reply, yes, well soon......
Self supporting ministers were mentioned- needed discussing again.
Church attendance figures were questioned, still no way of adding in school congregations
Equal Opps- damage to reputation of church if not complied with!
Archbishops' Council's draft budget and apportionment [what the dioceses get]
An increase of 1.8% was proposed., same as 2011, apportionment by 1.3%.
Comments:
church runs on £1.3 billion pounds a year or 6 days of takings at Tesco
4700 schools, I million children
2300 million hours of voluntary community action
£890 million raised by parishes
£150 million spent on church houses
Deaf and Disabled ministry had budget increased from 75% cut proposed, grateful
£250000 asked for training by e learning courses for clergy and lay
I asked again about dioceses accepting money and not accounting for it. All should be accountable for ministry and mission money [some diocese are building up big sums without explaining why they are not used]. It was acknowledged that more work needed doing on this.
'Testing the bridges'- a report on the
riots last summer
The Bishop of Bath and Wells introduced this. He spoke about ministry on the streets, Christian belief shaping actions, serving the common good, the thefts and attacks representing an 'ecstatic spiritual experience' for some young people, sacrificial ministry, the care for the emergency services.
Speakers commented about:
Toxteth riots
lack of courses to prepare priests for these situations
the targeting of police, overstretched
the dislike of institutional stop and search
the need to liaise with ecumenical colleagues
how well were clergy living alone supported?
flexible use of church buildings
possible cutbacks in emergency services
reconstructionand support for local businesses
ethical issues, social action, CUF local projects
the need for work for those leaving prison
Hannah Page [Youth Council] said that it took her 7 months to find work
The report was accepted.
The following motion was adjourned.
Private Member's Motion- Manifestation of Faith in Public Life
Introduction reflected that 75% people say they are Christian; European Human Rights Commission –freedom of thought, conscience and religion. Discrimination should not be in workplace, should be able to wear cross at work, refuse aspects of work on grounds of conscience; disdain of govt.
Speakers commented
Christendom has gone, controversy keeps Christianity in public view
risks are over-exaggerated
political people keep faith private
undue focus on secularism
caution in expressing faith
responsibility and personal action
some of our expressions of faith are anxious and defensive
people need to be attracted by what we say
expressing our faith at work is not always appropriate eg. doctor proposing healing cure
An amendment was moved to include the name of Jesus in the motion.
Dr Chik Tan spoke about the need to honour our faith, moral relativism, 'everyone should be a relativist', the need to be bold and gracious, the God shaped vacuum in people's lives
Others commented on:
the attitudes of the media
the law stating that a necklace was the problem, not the cross
the protection of those with no voice
Christianity and modern culture
Philip Giddings proposed an amendment to add that Christians should live their lives expressing their beliefs in public and private as canon law. This was voted down
on advice from the Dean of Arches [legal advice guy] as being sensitive issue with difficult legal consequences for those in public life.
Sister Ann spoke about the cross and sword
the Queen's affirmation of her faith
the test for new citizens about UK being Christian country
Vote:263 for, 25 against, 52 abstentions
Monday 9th July
9.30-1.00
130 people wanted to speak in this debate and an order paper outlining the 2 methods of moving an adjournment was produced. The
'request to speak' was very detailed and designed to measure people's views before the debate.
John Sentamu chaired the debate and instructed everyone about procedure, which was to move the Measure then immediately move to adjourn. The adjournment would then be discussed, but not everyone would have the chance to speak as there were too many requests.
Draft Bishops and Priests [Consecration of Women] Measure and Draft Amending Canon
The House of Bishops had proposed two amendments, the first was not contentious but the second amendment to clause 5 was understood to give legally less power to
women bishops.
Bishop of Manchester moved the Measure then the Bishop of Dover moved the adjournment.
The Bishop of Manchester spoke about the challenging task, the last 6 years, the legislation to admit women to the priesthood, holding together with those who disagree, travelling in hope, not modifying the structure and the diocesan votes of 42 of 44 in favour, the advice of the Standing Committee not to revise the Measure; it would be tragic if the Measure foundered at this stage.
The Bishop of Dover wished the House of Bishops had listened to the advice of the Standing Comm. The disquiet of senior women clergy, the new provision overstated the legal effect, the Equality Act difficulties, the need for approval of 2/3 of each House, the danger of refusing the Measure, the anticlimax to these sessions, the need for the draft text of the code of practice so that people felt more reassured in voting.
Rowan Williams asked for grace and space.
Speakers were then called.
The first speaker was a floating voter who wanted women bishops but also wished the C of E to remain connected to the wider church.
Second speaker wanted all to remain together, but legislation was taking the place of generosity, people should not air their
competitive pain, working group should continue on draft code of practice, diocesan schemes needed no explicit regulations, clause 5 amendment exists because of fear.
Rowan Williams explained that the House of Bishops acknowledged that the Measure 'needed humanising', we should celebrate together when the Measure is passed but it had been destabilised. The majority of bishops believed that it would not be passed in its original state. There were 2 problems:
1] analysis of dioceses' reactions showed the need for reassurance
2] the existing clause had no reference to theological convictions being the grounds for people to request a flying bishop, this seemed to indicate that the reason
was male/female discrimination. This was offensive to women. Bishops had been trying to honour two principles, without success. The reaction had been real hurt and offence. If the Measure went through it could not be celebrated. He invited views. Adjournment would be good for us, bishops were not infallible, he would not resist adjournment.
The Bishop of Durham supported the adjournment, they had been trying to do the right thing in the wrong way, resulting in a fire-fight of emails, letters and phone calls.
Oxfam use a bell curve to show the intensity of feeling, we are in the red zone, we need a 'brief safe space' to express views.
Tim Allen said the bishops had made forgiveable misjudgements, substantial groups would vote against amendments and there would not be 2/3 support. It would be a
disaster if the Measure fell, delay would not be a disaster. We would be a laughing stock if it was a failure, we need to preserve a broad church. He referred to the 'wry smile' of RW's sermon and asked for adjournment.
Other speakers expressed hurt, the need to support the dioceses' votes, the need for everyone to be respected. The value of adjournment was questioned, the parishes
with resolutions A and B could not vote in favour.
Others spoke about the need for passions to cool, the legislation would never be perfect.
Rev Christine Harper asked that the balance should be restored, reconciliation was necessary, the legislation amended would create a wall, the joy and fruit of the
spirit was crushed.
Cons Ev thanked the bishops, they had responded to pleas, no need to add to expense by having another debate, proceed now.
without amendments it would not pass, adjourning was high risk strategy, face of the measure was misogyny.
People's resolve would harden by Nov, not about the power of men in house of bishops, about hierarchy, grace and law.
Sister Anne Martin said we have come a long way, overwhelming desire to see women bishops 42/44 dioceses, no guarantee of what we may come back to, no new arguments, must move forward together
Tim Hind warned against perpetual ping pong, need reality check. Need women bishops, make provision for those opposed, need unity, need it soon
Bishop of Gibraltar spoke for the amendments
Need for inclusive church
Bishop of Willesden spoke for amendment, not question of taint, just a concession
Our rep to Parliament spoke about the English law, need to ratify Measure in House of Commons, implications if Measure was not passed, need for royal assent, diocesan
overwhelming votes could not be ignored in Parliament. It will be unwhipped business in the House of Commons [they have free vote], will be returned by the
House of Lords if Measure has problems. Deputy PM is indifferent.
Youth rep Hannah spoke about need to be enthused, have joy and excitement, how far we have come.
Politicians like headlines [hardly helpful!],gratitude to RW for amendments.
Third clergy are women, demeaned by amendment
Christina Rees spoke about the need for protection for the minority, exemption from the Equality Act, need to witness with confidence and integrity, need for full
inclusion. 3% will not accept women, 30-35% at moment cannot accept amendment
A vote for closure of the debate was moved.
Voting on adjournment was 288 in favour, 144 against, 15 abs.
Simon Cawdell asked for round table discussions to take place for rest of day- out of order.
November meeting would be Mon 19- Weds 21.
2.30-6.15
Resumed debate on PM motion to allow PCCs to own land/buildings
Diocesan authorities can be helpful, does not include churches, danger of complications if parish leaves C of E, dioceses have experts, PCCs well meaning
DBFs can cause delays
loss of documents by DBFgood features in present system
Voting 137 in favour, 122 against, 16 abs.
Church School of the Future
The history of church schools was outlined. 2/3 of church secondary schools are now academies. LEAs are losing their support staff and school improvement money. We are educating 1 million children nationally. Liaising with other faith schools and independent schools.
Questions were asked and comments made about liaison, governance [people were asked to volunteer], resourcing. Governors' conference soon. Ministry to young people and their families- training schemes- clergy need new training, DBEs filling gaps left by LEAs, the need to deliver on school performance and OFSTED, parish involvement and the need to lobby the Sec of State for funds, the special nature of RE in church schools, 4 out of 5 church primary schools are rural. Replies were given about the roles of the DBE,
need for community support, numbers of state schools converting to church
schools.
The report was passed.
Tuesday 10th July
PM's motion on Palestine and Israel
This motion had attracted the attention of the Jewish Board of Deputies in the UK and they sent a delegation to watch the debate. We were told they regarded the organisation of the World Council of Churches Ecumenical Accompaniment Programme in Palestine and Israel [ EAPPI ] as biased and were not in favour of our recognition of this organisation.
The motion was introduced by Dr John Dinnen.
27000 homes have been demolished in Palestine, the Quakers train people to go and observe what is happening, accompany children to school and photograph
incidents in both countries and at the border wall -EAPPI. People are not biased but Israel thinks they are.
The Board of Deputies wanted to derail the debate to avoid criticism of soldiers' behaviour and charges of aggression.
Comments
EAPPI has its roots in apartheid in South Africa when teams were sent to monitor.
Training takes 4 months and covers legalities.
Quakers train Church of Scotland, Methodists too, organisation represents the powerless.
An amendment was moved to take out references to EAPPI and refer to organisations by category instead [that is what GS normally does]. The relationships in the
Council of Christians and Jews would be affected by this motion.
Comments:
we should build bridges not walls
Palestinians have their own political agenda
RW is patron of the Parents Circle, an organisation mentioned in the motion as working for justice and peace, he was not in favour of mentioning EAPPI
World Council of Churches is working in both countries
support is needed for Christians in Palestine and Israel
polarisation of views would be the outcome of this motion
Friends of the Holy Land [supporting Christians] need support
lots of emails have been sent, lobbying, need neutrality
amendment would demean the work of EAPPI
Voting 399 not in favour of amendment.
Not enough mention of aid agencies [was mentioned in motion, too many to name]
Voting in Houses
For
Against
Abs
Bishops
21
3
14
Clergy
89
21
44
Laity
91
31
35
Motion carried.
Vacancy in See Committees
Introduced by Bradford diocese after their problems with this. Wanted more members on this committee to take numbers to 21. Carried on a wave of sympathy.
We said good bye to Mrs Stevenson, stenographer for 29 yrs. RW not in farewells! Two bishops retiring, Martin and Nicholas, bishops of Beverley and
Blackburn.
A huge agenda and long working hours, apologies for the length of this diary, trying to give you all a flavour.
On to November and I hope we receive accurate legal advice this time.
Sorry the voting tables have printed out in a linear way, will sort that when I am back from hols.
Penny Allen
GS327
14/07/12
Have been reminded that I should have mentioned that RW came to sit with some friends from Ely and myself for dinner one evening. Good to hear his views on the debate and to hear his pastoral concern for one of our members who was ill. He was honest in his opinions and refreshingly human...
Paperwork arrived 3 weeks before, 2 books [one on world mission, one on Fresh Expressions] and an inch of other papers, how do people read all this if they
are not retired? Crowded agenda, working until 10pm every night.
Friday 6th July
To York in steady rain with Rev Maureen Hobbs. Arrived at lunch time for a 2pm meeting of House of Laity to discuss the issue of women bishops.
Philip Giddings chaired the meeting, which ranged over all the issues of women in ministry, which I thought odd as we were supposed to be looking at women
bishops....
House of Clergy meeting at same time, separately.
Tim Hind spoke about the proposed amendments added by the bishops and voiced concern that
there would not be a 2/3 majority in favour of the Measure.
Some of the comments from laity:
we need to end discrimination against women
women should work with women and children, not with men
gracious compromise needed
no provision for Anglo-Catholics and Conservative Evangelicals, who provide most of ordinands, London out performs the other dioceses in producing
ordinands
vote to find a better way, adjourn the debate, amendments are risky
Letters of Request may be delayed by priest
wives must submit to their husbands, they should have complimentary roles
men feel threatened, need to think again
senior women clergy not happy with amendments
amendments are spanner in the works, dioceses voted on the draft Measure without the amendments and bishops were asked not to alter the Measure, they have made a
mistake
what about recruiting and retention, 40% clergy due to retire, 60 people have said they will leave if they do not have a protected position for their group [Cons Ev or
traditionalists]
Cons Evangelicals would go to free churches
bishops should withdraw amendment [Clause5 causing most of difficulty]
some people are hostile to women in ministry
we need to hold together
we want to get rid of Cons Evs
male domination is theologically correct
people in the dioceses want us to see the Measure through
amendments do not provide enough protection for Cons Evs and traditionalists
if we cannot sort it out we will be laughing stock, Parliament may intervene
Measure is a dog's dinner
what will the dioceses say if the Measure is voted down
people want protection for Cons Evs and trads to be permanent but nothing is permanent
the working world is losing patience with us, we must find a compromise
By the end of the debate I was feeling quite irritated as the question of women in ministry seemed to have been the main discussion, so I complained afterwards to the Chair of the debate. He said that the Act of Synod was being withdrawn in the Measure so the women in ministry issue could be debated!
What a way to spend my 38th wedding anniversary in what is a partnership!
VOTING FOR MEASURE
123 in favour, 53 against, 0 abstentions
The Amending Canon [needed to take the Measure through]
VOTING 129 in favour, 42 agains, 2 abstentions
These votes were an indication as real voting would be Monday.
Main proceedings started at 5.15pm
Welcomed Archbishop of Turku and Finland, who spoke about the relationship between church and state, religion in the public sphere , religious education, creating
an open space for listening and respecting each other.
REPORT BY THE BUSINESS COMMITTEE [which arranges what we will discuss]
Loyaladdress sent to Buckingham Palace
What happens if we adjourn the women bishops debate? Goes to November sessions
Why are we not discussing scrap metal? New policing/legal initiatives
Why were we meeting as work- groups when time was needed to discuss important business?
What about the Anglican Covenant?
8.30-10pm QUESTIONS 69, some with spoken answers, some with written. All taken in subject groups.
Dioceses and community action. Look at www.churchofengland.org/how2help website.
73 girls in Southampton received contraceptive implants without parental knowledge last
year? What should church do to uphold marriage? It does.
Guidance on multi-faith worship? Group discussing this.
Clergy in civil partnerships? Confidential report at moment.
Number of questions on women bishops and priests, including how did the Bishops vote- by show of hands so not recorded. Are women represented in discussions? Yes Standing Comm has members of both sexes.
Statement submitted to Govt on gay marriage, who wrote it? Offensive to gays. Archbishop's council looked at it and House of Bishops and Lords Spiritual.
States the Church's official position in law. Supplementary questions were asked which indicated the outrage felt by gay people and the lack of pastoral care.
Asked that in future documents should have name of issuing body. Some would wish to disassociate themselves.
Joanna Monckton wished to commend the above document and asked about discussions with Govt. Formal and informal discussions continuing with Home Office. Same sex marriage has support of all 3 main parties. She also asked about clergy being able to refuse to marry same sex couples. Clergy already have discretion over divorcees. No distinction between civil and religious marriage. Religious freedom is in the European Human Rights bill.
Church of England has newly formed Church of Eng Clergy Association, do member know about it? NO. It is a branch of Unite.
Could churchyard be reopened for burials? Concern of local authorities and Ministry of Justice.
Could members be emailed instead of posted to? Discussion in late September, cost £25 for set of labels with addresses. Cost of mailing this Synod £5819.15, £8.58 per
set.
What is present situation regarding Youth and Children's adviser? New full time post.
Children in care, who is responsible for them in schools? Not formally responsible, policy of pastoral care. Fisher Foundation doing good work.
Christian teaching in schools? Often poor quality, diocesan advisers to identify outstanding practice.
115 candidates under 30 recruited as ordinands last year, will be appointing national adviser. Underspend in ordination fund. 115 candidates hoped for next year.
663 candidates attended Bishops' Advisory Panel last year, 134 not recommended. Candidates are well prepared, find it difficult to accept if not chosen.
Does Durham Uni do work-based training. Yes, training Catholics and Methodists already, references were taken from current partners.
Place of Readers? Some diocese training as preachers, short course.
Some dioceses require curates to serve 3 yrs, some 4yrs. Guidelines are needed. Some move to posts too quickly.
OLMs? Diocesan responsibility. Research post into what sustains ministry.
Pioneer ministers? 74 candidates, 27 this year. Lack of posts? Not enough data.
Retirees? Can hold post past 70, already being used as interim ministers.
Can incumbent be appointed on 0.5? Yes, Common Tenure not understood.
Freehold posts? Must retire at 70.
Same sex marriages and Porvoo agreement as Danish Parliament agreed to this? Diversity of views, Porvoo primates meeting Oct 2013. Advice and support to diocesan
twinning.
Scrap metal? Amended Scrap Metal dealers act, starts Oct 2012.
Saturday 7th July
9.30-11.15am
Spent in work groups with a bible study, olives and world mission and reflections of young people.
11.45-1.00pm
WorldShaped Mission
This report outlines the desire to take the C of E from a position of donor to partnership with the third world [or Majority world as the report suggests]. It comments on different types of link- church, diocese, central.
The Bishop of Bristol spoke to introduce the report.
He said that previously the Church had lacked sensitivity to indigenous cultures [how could you not agree with that!] and that that now England is a mission field where we could have mutuality in mission.
The Millenium development goals were referred to.
Rowan Williams made two points:
We need to liaise and collaborate with the black led churches based here.
Mission and aid agencies need to work together more, and DFID. He spoke about his travels to Kenya, Malawi, Zambia and the need for
integration.
Speakers commented:
churches have partnerships
dioceses have links
Rev Mark Ireland spoke about mission and development, mission and evangelism. In Malaysia 64 churches have been planted, often lay led. Gap summer holiday students had been taught how to deliver 2 sermons and sent into the bush with ½ bag rice and a change of clothes. Told to meet again in a month. Sacrificial living situations and humility.
Mission is like jazz, best improvised. Diocesan links, the social gospel, formation of new links, link with Peru.
I commented on the absence of the campaigns for social and trade justice, the previous success of the Make Poverty History campaign and Drop the Debt, the opportunities to join with others and give a faith view. I suggested making England a Fairtrade country and taking more ethical stances about the economy and banking. I was told that was the Ethical Investment Group's role!! Also asked that attention is given to the spread of links, some areas of world are not covered.
the unhealthy competition between mission groups and lack of connections and co-ordination. Involvement needs a focus.
Two amendments were moved, one to include the world church in affirmation of growth, which was carried; the second to include all parishes in world mission was lost as it was felt that some smaller parishes would not want this [perhaps keeping a roof over their heads is enough!]
2.30-6.15
This time was used to tidy up a range of smaller legislative issues, final drafting of the
Clergy Discipline Measure
Comments included:
the length of time it takes for discipline actions, speeding up the process
ensuing mental health problems
alternative accommodation
housing is the real issue
what to do when a political organisation changes its position now that discrimination is not allowed
difficulties in different parts of UK, including when a priest is divorced or seeking divorce
Voting for the draft Measure
For
Against
Abstentions
Bishops
22
0
0
Clergy
86
1
0
Laity
105
1
0
Draft Diocese in Europe Measure
This Measure is to give direct financial support to the diocese in Europe. There are 300 congregations, 160 clergy plus ordinands.
Comments:
we should not fund the diocese in Europe, they are wealthy
they meet once a year
clergy have a lot of travelling to do
people of all types and with all incomes belong
Voting
For
Against
Abstentions
Bishops
22
0
0
Clergy
86
1
0
Laity
105
1
0
Draft
Miscellaneous Provisions Measure and Draft Amending Canon
This Measure and the Canon seems to cover everything from dead bodies in church yards, to glebe land, to youth workers, to who can be a chancellor of a diocese! Anyway various matters were passed!
Church of England Pension scheme
This was amended to include clergy whose churches are being reorganised or who are out of parochial ministry for a while eg chaplains. New Govt regulations came into force in January regarding the liabilities of employers. It was passed.
Legal Officers' fees order
This was about fees paid to registrars. Needless to say they are expensive and for Lichfield it is £62040. Passed.
Church Commissioners' Annual Report
Various questions were asked about investments, the commissioners have bought a lot of forests, did not buy gold. Returns have not been good this year.
Were ethical restraints stopping them making a profit? Not really- tobacco and alcohol were spoken about but ethical issues
only affect 0.6 % of portfolio.
They have sponsored the website www.achurchnearyou.org and were thanked.
More money needed investing in children and young people.
I asked a question about the comment of the actuaries that 5-10% of the non-pension distributions should be arranged so they can stop within 2 years if necessary.
The importance of diocesan funding is crucial to the funding of ministry and mission. Also the dioceses that do not account for their money should be held to
account. The answer was that the actuaries always put in a warning and they like to see prudence which enables them to recommend higher levels of spending than
would otherwise be possible. Agreed that more needs to be done with diocesan spending.
As regards ethical investments, representation on company boards gives the opportunity to criticise executive pay and comment on ethics.
The chief risk currently is a 'European accident' as runs are already being taken on banks.
The report was approved.
As there was more than 20 mins left of the session we moved on to a
Private Member's motion allowing PCCs to own land or buildings without the diocese being involved.
The reasons for this motion were outlined by Christopher Hobbs as
a] at present land and buildings tenancies are in the name of the diocese
b] some parishes are creating trusts to get round this
c] DBFs only meet infrequently, decisions need making swiftly sometimes
d] Mistakes are made by the DBF
e] deed documents are sometimes lost
f] PCCs are publicly accountable as charities
Sympathy was expressed by some who wanted PCCs to have more decentralised power.
Objectors saw difficulties in
PCCs not having expertise
membership of PCCs undergoing change, trusts may
run into trouble
Charity Commission usually waits for complaints before investigating
Discussion was adjourned.
6.30-10pm
Fresh Expressions and Church Growth report
This report justified the Fresh Expression movement in biblical terms and answered critics. It also gave examples.
Our former suffragan, Rt Rev Alan Smith, now Bishop of St Albans, introduced the report, of this joint venture between Anglicans and Methodists, who had already discussed it at their conference.
The Methodist conference had received it warmly with excitement. It has reached churched and un-churched. Methodists have
allocated extra funding. It has been 'timely, necessary and beneficial'.
Comments:
Messy church was being done 25 years ago, speaking to the converted, hope based on well dressing!!
not the only way to reach young people, also need traditional ways [Youth Council rep]
where do sacraments fit?, 20% rise at weekday services, largest in under 12s, mission action planning helpful, lay led, finding creative ways to serve, needs strategy
rethink how to do church, need social engagement
some dioceses have director of Pioneers, every one person attending extra 5 come, cover different cultures and backgrounds, average congregation 35, based on networks
not an end to ministry, a story to share, helpful to regenerate 18-35s
need mixed economy of churches, encouragement needed to move on
lesbian and gays alienated, need FE in parish church
interest in new monasticism
in S Warwicks- church in pubs, cafes, Goths
RW spoke about networking and FE for teenage mothers, drug users etc.
Welcome and food are important, 4 o'clock after school FE
link to mission strategy, MU
different groups have different needs
Preb Pat Hawkins spoke about not confusing young peoples' needs with FE, she has three under 25s on PCC in traditional church. She asked at what point does FE become a church in its own right. The biblical basis should not be limited to 'Acts' only.
Voting 201 in favour, 112 against, 14 abstentions.
Measure carried.
Sunday 8th July
A walk to York Minster from the university following a bishop and companion [although it was not the shortest route- perhaps bishops do meander off course sometimes!].
A most inspiring and understanding sermon from Rowan Williams on frustration. Available here:
http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/articles.php/2558/archbishops-sermon-at-york-minster
Lovely to see the children from junior church presenting him with a card and gift, great photo opp and no camera!
Did compliment him on the sermon and give him a hug!
2.30-6.15pm
Additional Eucharistic Prayers
At last they were approved, only 12 years later!
Annual Report of the Archbishops' Council
This report was presented then questions asked.
Comments were about streamlining faculties, more prominence to working with Methodists, funding for new projects through the Church Community Fund, advice for parishes who had to pay pensions
I asked about ecumenical links and the recognition of the ministry in other denominations and why there is still no action plan on lay ministry as many priests would be
retiring soon. Reply, yes, well soon......
Self supporting ministers were mentioned- needed discussing again.
Church attendance figures were questioned, still no way of adding in school congregations
Equal Opps- damage to reputation of church if not complied with!
Archbishops' Council's draft budget and apportionment [what the dioceses get]
An increase of 1.8% was proposed., same as 2011, apportionment by 1.3%.
Comments:
church runs on £1.3 billion pounds a year or 6 days of takings at Tesco
4700 schools, I million children
2300 million hours of voluntary community action
£890 million raised by parishes
£150 million spent on church houses
Deaf and Disabled ministry had budget increased from 75% cut proposed, grateful
£250000 asked for training by e learning courses for clergy and lay
I asked again about dioceses accepting money and not accounting for it. All should be accountable for ministry and mission money [some diocese are building up big sums without explaining why they are not used]. It was acknowledged that more work needed doing on this.
'Testing the bridges'- a report on the
riots last summer
The Bishop of Bath and Wells introduced this. He spoke about ministry on the streets, Christian belief shaping actions, serving the common good, the thefts and attacks representing an 'ecstatic spiritual experience' for some young people, sacrificial ministry, the care for the emergency services.
Speakers commented about:
Toxteth riots
lack of courses to prepare priests for these situations
the targeting of police, overstretched
- Archdeacon
Chris Sims expressed
his gratitude to the clergy and spoke about the fear among the
police, one priest's presence in the police car to help them stay
calm; the importance of clergy, community leaders and leaders of
other faiths; the frustration in the face of powerlessness, the role
of the churches and clearing up; the new initiative of the diocese
of Lichfield- the Director of Transforming Communities.
- Penal
reform, poverty and justice
- Bishop
John Packer spoke about support for urban parishes, the need for the
Mission and Public Affairs committee to liaise with other faiths,
the need for education for priests
the dislike of institutional stop and search
the need to liaise with ecumenical colleagues
how well were clergy living alone supported?
flexible use of church buildings
possible cutbacks in emergency services
reconstructionand support for local businesses
ethical issues, social action, CUF local projects
the need for work for those leaving prison
Hannah Page [Youth Council] said that it took her 7 months to find work
The report was accepted.
The following motion was adjourned.
Private Member's Motion- Manifestation of Faith in Public Life
Introduction reflected that 75% people say they are Christian; European Human Rights Commission –freedom of thought, conscience and religion. Discrimination should not be in workplace, should be able to wear cross at work, refuse aspects of work on grounds of conscience; disdain of govt.
Speakers commented
Christendom has gone, controversy keeps Christianity in public view
risks are over-exaggerated
political people keep faith private
undue focus on secularism
caution in expressing faith
responsibility and personal action
some of our expressions of faith are anxious and defensive
people need to be attracted by what we say
expressing our faith at work is not always appropriate eg. doctor proposing healing cure
An amendment was moved to include the name of Jesus in the motion.
Dr Chik Tan spoke about the need to honour our faith, moral relativism, 'everyone should be a relativist', the need to be bold and gracious, the God shaped vacuum in people's lives
Others commented on:
the attitudes of the media
the law stating that a necklace was the problem, not the cross
the protection of those with no voice
Christianity and modern culture
Philip Giddings proposed an amendment to add that Christians should live their lives expressing their beliefs in public and private as canon law. This was voted down
on advice from the Dean of Arches [legal advice guy] as being sensitive issue with difficult legal consequences for those in public life.
Sister Ann spoke about the cross and sword
the Queen's affirmation of her faith
the test for new citizens about UK being Christian country
Vote:263 for, 25 against, 52 abstentions
Monday 9th July
9.30-1.00
130 people wanted to speak in this debate and an order paper outlining the 2 methods of moving an adjournment was produced. The
'request to speak' was very detailed and designed to measure people's views before the debate.
John Sentamu chaired the debate and instructed everyone about procedure, which was to move the Measure then immediately move to adjourn. The adjournment would then be discussed, but not everyone would have the chance to speak as there were too many requests.
Draft Bishops and Priests [Consecration of Women] Measure and Draft Amending Canon
The House of Bishops had proposed two amendments, the first was not contentious but the second amendment to clause 5 was understood to give legally less power to
women bishops.
Bishop of Manchester moved the Measure then the Bishop of Dover moved the adjournment.
The Bishop of Manchester spoke about the challenging task, the last 6 years, the legislation to admit women to the priesthood, holding together with those who disagree, travelling in hope, not modifying the structure and the diocesan votes of 42 of 44 in favour, the advice of the Standing Committee not to revise the Measure; it would be tragic if the Measure foundered at this stage.
The Bishop of Dover wished the House of Bishops had listened to the advice of the Standing Comm. The disquiet of senior women clergy, the new provision overstated the legal effect, the Equality Act difficulties, the need for approval of 2/3 of each House, the danger of refusing the Measure, the anticlimax to these sessions, the need for the draft text of the code of practice so that people felt more reassured in voting.
Rowan Williams asked for grace and space.
Speakers were then called.
The first speaker was a floating voter who wanted women bishops but also wished the C of E to remain connected to the wider church.
Second speaker wanted all to remain together, but legislation was taking the place of generosity, people should not air their
competitive pain, working group should continue on draft code of practice, diocesan schemes needed no explicit regulations, clause 5 amendment exists because of fear.
Rowan Williams explained that the House of Bishops acknowledged that the Measure 'needed humanising', we should celebrate together when the Measure is passed but it had been destabilised. The majority of bishops believed that it would not be passed in its original state. There were 2 problems:
1] analysis of dioceses' reactions showed the need for reassurance
2] the existing clause had no reference to theological convictions being the grounds for people to request a flying bishop, this seemed to indicate that the reason
was male/female discrimination. This was offensive to women. Bishops had been trying to honour two principles, without success. The reaction had been real hurt and offence. If the Measure went through it could not be celebrated. He invited views. Adjournment would be good for us, bishops were not infallible, he would not resist adjournment.
The Bishop of Durham supported the adjournment, they had been trying to do the right thing in the wrong way, resulting in a fire-fight of emails, letters and phone calls.
Oxfam use a bell curve to show the intensity of feeling, we are in the red zone, we need a 'brief safe space' to express views.
Tim Allen said the bishops had made forgiveable misjudgements, substantial groups would vote against amendments and there would not be 2/3 support. It would be a
disaster if the Measure fell, delay would not be a disaster. We would be a laughing stock if it was a failure, we need to preserve a broad church. He referred to the 'wry smile' of RW's sermon and asked for adjournment.
Other speakers expressed hurt, the need to support the dioceses' votes, the need for everyone to be respected. The value of adjournment was questioned, the parishes
with resolutions A and B could not vote in favour.
Others spoke about the need for passions to cool, the legislation would never be perfect.
Rev Christine Harper asked that the balance should be restored, reconciliation was necessary, the legislation amended would create a wall, the joy and fruit of the
spirit was crushed.
Cons Ev thanked the bishops, they had responded to pleas, no need to add to expense by having another debate, proceed now.
without amendments it would not pass, adjourning was high risk strategy, face of the measure was misogyny.
People's resolve would harden by Nov, not about the power of men in house of bishops, about hierarchy, grace and law.
Sister Anne Martin said we have come a long way, overwhelming desire to see women bishops 42/44 dioceses, no guarantee of what we may come back to, no new arguments, must move forward together
Tim Hind warned against perpetual ping pong, need reality check. Need women bishops, make provision for those opposed, need unity, need it soon
Bishop of Gibraltar spoke for the amendments
Need for inclusive church
Bishop of Willesden spoke for amendment, not question of taint, just a concession
Our rep to Parliament spoke about the English law, need to ratify Measure in House of Commons, implications if Measure was not passed, need for royal assent, diocesan
overwhelming votes could not be ignored in Parliament. It will be unwhipped business in the House of Commons [they have free vote], will be returned by the
House of Lords if Measure has problems. Deputy PM is indifferent.
Youth rep Hannah spoke about need to be enthused, have joy and excitement, how far we have come.
Politicians like headlines [hardly helpful!],gratitude to RW for amendments.
Third clergy are women, demeaned by amendment
Christina Rees spoke about the need for protection for the minority, exemption from the Equality Act, need to witness with confidence and integrity, need for full
inclusion. 3% will not accept women, 30-35% at moment cannot accept amendment
A vote for closure of the debate was moved.
Voting on adjournment was 288 in favour, 144 against, 15 abs.
Simon Cawdell asked for round table discussions to take place for rest of day- out of order.
November meeting would be Mon 19- Weds 21.
2.30-6.15
Resumed debate on PM motion to allow PCCs to own land/buildings
Diocesan authorities can be helpful, does not include churches, danger of complications if parish leaves C of E, dioceses have experts, PCCs well meaning
DBFs can cause delays
loss of documents by DBFgood features in present system
Voting 137 in favour, 122 against, 16 abs.
Church School of the Future
The history of church schools was outlined. 2/3 of church secondary schools are now academies. LEAs are losing their support staff and school improvement money. We are educating 1 million children nationally. Liaising with other faith schools and independent schools.
Questions were asked and comments made about liaison, governance [people were asked to volunteer], resourcing. Governors' conference soon. Ministry to young people and their families- training schemes- clergy need new training, DBEs filling gaps left by LEAs, the need to deliver on school performance and OFSTED, parish involvement and the need to lobby the Sec of State for funds, the special nature of RE in church schools, 4 out of 5 church primary schools are rural. Replies were given about the roles of the DBE,
need for community support, numbers of state schools converting to church
schools.
The report was passed.
Tuesday 10th July
PM's motion on Palestine and Israel
This motion had attracted the attention of the Jewish Board of Deputies in the UK and they sent a delegation to watch the debate. We were told they regarded the organisation of the World Council of Churches Ecumenical Accompaniment Programme in Palestine and Israel [ EAPPI ] as biased and were not in favour of our recognition of this organisation.
The motion was introduced by Dr John Dinnen.
27000 homes have been demolished in Palestine, the Quakers train people to go and observe what is happening, accompany children to school and photograph
incidents in both countries and at the border wall -EAPPI. People are not biased but Israel thinks they are.
The Board of Deputies wanted to derail the debate to avoid criticism of soldiers' behaviour and charges of aggression.
Comments
EAPPI has its roots in apartheid in South Africa when teams were sent to monitor.
Training takes 4 months and covers legalities.
Quakers train Church of Scotland, Methodists too, organisation represents the powerless.
An amendment was moved to take out references to EAPPI and refer to organisations by category instead [that is what GS normally does]. The relationships in the
Council of Christians and Jews would be affected by this motion.
Comments:
we should build bridges not walls
Palestinians have their own political agenda
RW is patron of the Parents Circle, an organisation mentioned in the motion as working for justice and peace, he was not in favour of mentioning EAPPI
World Council of Churches is working in both countries
support is needed for Christians in Palestine and Israel
polarisation of views would be the outcome of this motion
Friends of the Holy Land [supporting Christians] need support
lots of emails have been sent, lobbying, need neutrality
amendment would demean the work of EAPPI
Voting 399 not in favour of amendment.
Not enough mention of aid agencies [was mentioned in motion, too many to name]
Voting in Houses
For
Against
Abs
Bishops
21
3
14
Clergy
89
21
44
Laity
91
31
35
Motion carried.
Vacancy in See Committees
Introduced by Bradford diocese after their problems with this. Wanted more members on this committee to take numbers to 21. Carried on a wave of sympathy.
We said good bye to Mrs Stevenson, stenographer for 29 yrs. RW not in farewells! Two bishops retiring, Martin and Nicholas, bishops of Beverley and
Blackburn.
A huge agenda and long working hours, apologies for the length of this diary, trying to give you all a flavour.
On to November and I hope we receive accurate legal advice this time.
Sorry the voting tables have printed out in a linear way, will sort that when I am back from hols.
Penny Allen
GS327
14/07/12
Have been reminded that I should have mentioned that RW came to sit with some friends from Ely and myself for dinner one evening. Good to hear his views on the debate and to hear his pastoral concern for one of our members who was ill. He was honest in his opinions and refreshingly human...